I got into it because of my wife. To give it all up after just a few years of work seams to be a sad waste of time and knowledge. Then what? I love how you have clearly articulated some of the things that “bothered” me about the MMM blog. It didn’t take long for Mr. Money Mustache’s writing style to captivate me, and I ended up devouring every single post on his site in a matter of a few months. https://thinksaveretire.com/what-i-think-of-mr-money-mustache HSA Accounts. I’m in for $75 already…. MMM might consider a 10 day trip to French Polynesia hedonistic but after working like a resident does the clear water makes you feel pretty good while sipping pineapple wine and looking at the most colorful fish in the world! Europe, 42, FI since 2016 5 years ago. Mr money mustache is explicitly anti-consumerist, and this makes people uncomfortable He has trained himself to find great joy in these simple things. Post it here! Lastly, if working less is a priority, moving where you can find a job or partnership that fits your desire may be an option. At any rate, if you're not familiar with his financial philosophy, you would do well to learn about it. But I do plan on semi-retiring early and cut down to 2 days of work a week. Frugal people like me sometimes take bargain hunting too far. Mr. Adeney doesn’t give out the exact number for his net worth, but the extrapolated net worth of Mr. Money Mustache is between $3 million to $5 million. Yup, this. To be fair, I love how he writes, find many of his articles useful and am actually trying to read more about the stoic way of life… I agree that the commentators on his blog can be a bit extreme and somewhat mindless and a bit of “you are American so you must be stupid” (I can say this as an immigrant myself that things are not that rosy in other parts of the world and am incredibly fortunate to be truly living the American Dream). Actually, scratch that. The implication is that his advice is for job haters, not doctors who like their work. That’s not the point. We lived a lifestyle below our earnings (corporate work) but again, nowhere near MMM levels. As doctors, we've all seen people who retired to a life of nothing but depression, deconditioning, and death. Sounds like shaky ground to me…as I’ve seen many a young lady grow old at the expense of a non-commital man…and be out on the streets by themselves when your man wants kids and you can’t. Going to Lake Powell in my 13-year-old, $6K, 135 HP boat is pretty fun too. Perhaps I conflated these two stories. Anonymous wrote:Mr money moustache is blocking people on his forum for criticizing his New Yorker article!!!! He is merely the Henry David Thoreau for our time. 2) Just like careers can evolve, or even change quickly, so can retirement. What a fantastic career! So I use gross. MMM’s point is that there is a deep pleasure in doing things yourself, by your own wits and motive power. But going in my new fancy 410 hp wakeboat is going to be a lot more fun, especially because I'll be able to take twice as many fun people. Besides the journal that she has kept since 3rd grade and assorted teen angst poetry, she has not written any books. With the MMM philosophy, I consider myself to be pretty darn rich on the resident salary with extra cash to burn on some mind-blowingly ridiculous vacations. Mr. Money Mustache frequently extols the virtues of a walk or bike ride in a blizzard, working in his woodshop, or brewing his own beer. The problem that Mr. MMM has that Pete does not is that if there is a bout of serious financial adversity, Pete has the ability to recover and press on, maybe working for longer than he otherwise might want, in order to insure his long-term financial health. Such as getting a job that doesn't suck. [Edit: The link I posted was not a publicly available link, so I’ve removed it. By experimenting with voluntary discomfort, we learn to appreciate far more of our life, and can be content with a much simpler and more wholesome one. ), I grew up in Alaska. Lol yeah, most of the jobs out there aren’t ones that many people would actually WANT to do… if they didn’t need the money. Meanwhile, a person with the extreme opposite philosophy might become irritated if he ever has to travel in less than a first-class airplane seat or stay in less than a five star hotel or drink sub-$500-per-bottle wine. Anonymous wrote:Mr money moustache is blocking people on his forum for criticizing his New Yorker article!!!! Not my content to give away.]. There is an alternative solution. I love the work I do now. The other point of yours that I appreciated was that not spending money can make our lives harder. Just my two cents…. Namely that homebrewing counts as a “cheap” hobby.  I have never really enjoyed the grind of daily full time work, but I also never even considered the option of retiring early - outside of somehow pulling in hundreds of thousands of dollars in income every year. Typically when people say they save 70% of their income (for example) they mean 70% of their take home pay. This exasperation came mainly from him having been retired a full six years, living happily with his children and wife, while his friends complained about how little money they had. Here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/. That was just over a year ago. We meet fascinating people. I do my own yard work, I find it easy and fun. I loved this article and I’d consider myself a Mustachian wanna-be, but I can’t commit to it 100% (I’m not biking in slush and getting up an hour earlier). He makes some money from it, but as near as I can tell, the site is dramatically “under-monetized.” I don't think he cares. Unfortunately googling just turned up this: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/21/i-just-gave-up-4000-per-month-to-keep-my-freedom-of-speech/. In Alaska, there are a lot of people who like to do things the hard way. The question is this: If you like your job, it provides real service to society, you make tons of money, you have enough money already that you are “MMM-FI,” what should you do with your time and money? If we weren’t happy with this spending level, we would spend more, but we are happy with it for now (somewhere around $60-70k/year for the two of us). And, eight years ago, he and his wife retired at age 30. I’d rather be working at my practice, hanging out at the gym, or playing video games (sorry, WCI, but I just love Peggle). Meet Mr. Money Mustache “I’m going to teach you a radical new way to think about and enjoy money that will get you off of your current debt-powered treadmill and into a lifestyle that is completely unimaginable to most people where I live, which happens to be in the United States, ground zero for self-imposed treadmills. This is what I think you’ve missed: it’s NOT a choice between stuffing every penny into investments vs. buying stuff to make you happy. I’d argue that it’s reasonable to spend some money, especially if you’re already saving 20-30% of your gross income already. You don’t own a 600ft yacht, or a private jet, or an tropical island….you have already adjusted your living expenses to a level that you find prudent within your means. And that's okay. Moving from the mental to the physical, Stoics actually enjoy experimenting with Voluntary Discomfort. We’re the lucky few. Simply not available. Timely article Jim! They still do some work, both for free and for pay, but are not financially required to do so. Have you been to the MMM forums? Regarding renting a wake boat, please provide the name and location of a business in my state that rents a boat with a surfgate on it. Took the whole weekend, I cut every knuckle on both hands, but that damned disposal kept working at least until we sold the house last year. We’re happy with the amount we’re spending.” We take an international trip every year, live in a nice, spacious condo in the city, and buy whatever we want almost whenever we want, yet we’re still only spending 20-30% of our net income. Well said! Do those responses to what I wrote sound like they come from people who like their jobs? Even though I could retire now at 48, I think both of their approaches are hard to replicate. Sometimes it is hard. He advocates asking yourself if something is important enough in your life to be worth paying for (or rather, working so you can pay someone else to do them). If you read through some of his old articles and see some of the lifestyle choices he makes, it makes MMM seem downright extravagant. https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/trimming-the-money-mustache-6a2f4160a206 Everyone around you is wasting a ridiculously huge sum of money. And he is here to tell you that early retirement doesn't only happen to Powerball winners and those who luck into a big inheritance.  In other words, a high salary. Constructive Criticism - Go! I doubt I would like not working for very long either, though I would like to take a month long trip once every year and a half, I think that would be ideal. I doubt she’ll follow me into private practice as she is bored with my specialty and seems better suited for academia. He uses extreme examples to illustrate how any obstacle can be overcome by sheer stubbornness! This panel discussion took place back in May at Camp Mustache — an annual retreat in the Pacific Northwest organized by Mr. Money Mustache readers.. We do have some differences. We pay about 25% in taxes combined and save about 70-80% of the remaining income, so of the gross: about 25% to taxes, 25% spending, and 50% saved. A Physician Takes a Step Towards Minimalism. Will it be ten times as much fun? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dYS7PcAG4. Really, I think you’re being disingenuous on this point. Every so often I come across references to financial advice blogs, and one that keeps re-surfacing is “Mr. I love the article, but I have to disagree with one point. Then I pay taxes on it. I hope he stores his $400k a year in the same bag with his shit. Given his traffic is 10-20 times mine, it shouldn’t be too hard for him to be making 5 times as much as I do which would put him at the point where he could pay for the rest of his life with 9 months of website revenue. MMM spends money on things he likes. I have a buddy who works as a surgicalist. I’d rather be free to do what I want with my time and money than have to limit spending in order to proclaim myself officially financially independent according to someone else’s definition. Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. Website revenue is highly correlated with traffic. And I guess that is a form of retirement (at least per MMM. Jet skis yes, wakeboats, no. I agree, not only do I keep buying stuff but when you think about it, the cost isn’t that much better. This is when you're focused on getting and keeping your piece of the pie, as opposed to an abundance mentality when you realize you have the ability to make the pie bigger. My friends with boats are pretty much stuck going only to the nearest body of water, and not one of them has ever used their boat or jet ski as much as they thought they would. If you have been around this whole early retirement business long enough online, chances are good that you have run across a web site called Mr. Money Mustache. The noted penny-pinching guru dubbed Mr. Money Mustache announced on New Year’s Eve that he and his wife have divorced, writing in a blog post that they only spent $265 on the entire process. I think all residents should read MMM! The result is a retirement that is quite comfortable–way above MMM status. I’ve never liked defining myself by the job I do. I think you completely wiff on point 3. Seriously, I avoided road biking for years because my impression was that people like your snobby friends dominated the sport. Also – working more becomes less exciting and after a point 50% of every dollar goes to the tax man. I can come home from work and buy a car with my day’s earnings. Yes it’s harder – but ultimately it makes you happier? Even if you hate the guy, it is always interesting to hear what he has to say. You’re arguing against a straw man here. I love having friends who have boats myself. I get the gas savings part, but honestly, I probably won't be found peddling a bicycle back from the store with my groceries behind me in a carriage. 12 pack of good beer runs you around $18 at most so it cost about $70-90 for an equal amount of beer that you can make. I had not yet started working at 30. One the other hand MMM reminds me that I can ride my bike more, cut back on some things and makes me think about how much happiness something will actually bring me. Does it have issues? This is unfortunate. Reading MMM has vastly changed my outlook towards work; on a daily and career-length basis. Investing is a game won by the most disciplined, not by the smartest. Let me summarize it again: Avoid waste. I’d like my kids to go to medical school too! Are you aware of a career that does not? Or doing a craniotomy on a 14 year with an astrocytoma. In 2011 Pete Adeney decided to create the blog “Mr Money Mustache” (MMM in short) out of “exasperation”. Sometimes the work is an unpaid or poorly paid pursuit. Your kids should learn to work hard. He's already spending so much less than he earns, that he doesn't need a dime from the site. In fact, rental boats are in general surprisingly difficult to find. But guess what, I don't. In Mustachian terminology, all of these thoughts relating to adapting your comfort level to embrace Nature are collectively referred to as Badassity. It’s a powerful message, and it upsets people who have committed to the conventional wisdom, and who are stuck in the mindset that they need to care what someone else will think of their bicycle. Noone ever died of a crooked tooth. It is very much an abundance mentality, but the abundance is in deciding what to do with one’s time when one can step off the treadmill. Do fish ride mountain bikes or road bikes? Great article. Report Save. Another option is to pay money to buy time. I’ve now used mine 16 days so far this year. We need to be smarter about frugality’s point of diminishing returns.. I asked him recently if he thought we should spend more money and he said “Why? But overall, both have a similar philosophy. . Stark difference, bud. What percentage of your portfolio do you reserve for "play money"? Minimalism versus Frugality: Can They Coexist? Suze Orman VS Mr. Money Mustache (2013, retired, best, smart) User Name: Remember Me: Password ... And this brings us to a crucial point, often raised in criticism of MMM and the FIRE movement in general... namely, this approach is tractable for those who already wield considerable resources. I think MMM has alot of things right, but with doctors some of it needs to be adapted. And I get a genuine satisfaction in using these things. A simple life with simple pleasures can be lived very inexpensively and with reasonable financial management, can be coupled with a ridiculously short career. He's a fan of simple living in natural surroundings. Many people could benefit from the principles espoused by Mr. Money Mustache. I also get a satisfaction knowing I can pull out by tool box and replace a faucet or drain, or figure out how to build a small cottage, or replace my car’s clutch or lower control arm. If you had 10 million in the bank would you be working the night shift and dealing with drug-seekers? « on: December 30, 2013, 04:10:43 PM » 2014 is the year of no (or very little) unnecessary spending as I look to wipe out the final $12K in student loan debt and add some cash to my Vanguard targeted fund. At that price I’ll have paid for the boat in a few more weeks of use. We think interesting thoughts. It was interesting, but I’m glad to be a White-Coatian…? “Retiring” doesn’t mean you become lazy, or even stop earning money. After retirement, Mr. Adeney earned even more money with his blog and eventually he is now earning around $400,000 a year. I was…eh,hem, AM, burned out 2/3 my way through a surgical residency. He would only have his savings cut in half or more. I wonder what it is like to be married to a true Stoic? We're always intrigued to get a peek at how real people (read: those who aren't the subject of highly-produced photo shoots) live, so when we stumbled upon photos of blogger Mr. Money Mustache's modern but lively home he shares with his wife and son in Longmont, Colorado we were impressed -- especially when we learned that they live on only $25K a year. Starting at 7 pm. I don’t know that stay at home parenting would be my idea of retirement though . The surgeon in your example has already spent many years of hardship to get to the point of casually paying a painter to paint. But Mr. Money Mustache taught me about the other side of the coin - the ability to retire early based on a freaking high level of savings, which opened up an entirely new world of possibilities for me that, quite frankly, are far easier to accomplish than those based purely on high income. Does that fact that many doctors hate their jobs mean that your blog is bogus? Your email address will not be published. That’s pretty impressive. Renting makes no sense with boats if you actually use the boat. Mr. Money Mustache is the website and pseudonym of 47-year-old Canadian-born blogger Peter Adeney. And for some of us… even if we have a job doing something we love(d) to do… it’s no longer enjoyable when we HAVE to do it 40hrs/week. Her road bike is a $5-6k top-of-the-line racing bike. MMM takes an extreme point of view, but particularly in his response to some of the comments you can also see that he’s also flexible and reasonable. More amazingly, you state that the surgeon is wasting time when they’re not practicing medicine. It’s no wonder that the happiest day for most boat owners is the day they sell their boat. I could probably work into my 70s BUT the stress of running a business and dealing with staff and parents just grinds on you.  I'm talking thousands of hits a month. Maybe I’m just an outlier, since I’ve found other supposedly expensive hobbies like traveling, collecting art, or collecting advanced degrees to be easy to do, and just as fun, without throwing around big wads of cash. Thank you again for this wonderful, well reasoned and thoughtful article. If your work sucks, the solution isn't necessarily to save some crazy percentage of your income so you can quit working ASAP. But here we go anyway. Or playing with your kids. Money is meant to be spent in your lifetime (especially since I don’t plan on having children). I’m always interested to see real life vs internet personalities. I agree that you shouldn’t waste money on things that don’t make you happier. But I still pay someone else to cut my lawn, tend my garden, clean my house, maintain my pool, wash my car, etc. I have my own little blog here at ThinkSaveRetire.com (less than a month old as of the time of this writing) that chronicles my journey towards the same worthy goal of jobless badassity (a term that I usually change to "badassery"). The book summarizes the most important information on the blog and contains material not found on the site at all. Right now, my boyfriend and I happily live off of about 70-80% of our combined income, which is in the low multiple hundred thousand dollar range. I agree that DIYing is fun and useful. The Mustachian way of life changed my finanical perspective. Bot WCI and MMM have great ideas and both will get you there. . I followed my dad into his practice 25 years ago, but what we’re doing now is 180 degrees from what he did in the 70’s and 80’s. He and his wife retired from middle-income jobs before they had their son. But yeah, your completely on point that not every speciality has this option. They’ve already worked for years at no pay or low pay so that now they can do a few extra surgeries to get that extra $8k. It’s not, especially if you’re truly Financially Independent. There are two major points that I see his “haters” misunderstanding. He (and his teachings) also remain surprisingly controversial. Also love it because I love DIY and, honestly, my dream life involves being that person in Alaska building my own cabin…I do intend to reach financial independence as soon as possible so I can have my medical career on my terms: family time and the opportunity for international work that’s hard to get when almost maxing out a $400K salary. As a surgeon you won’t need 7-10 years to pay your debts. This is a very late reply to this post, but can you really brag on how sustainable such a tenuous “cohabitational relationship” really is. I don’t see where I stated that a surgeon who is not practicing medicine is wasting time. Technology changes. And I didn’t “zero in on a few minor points.” You numbered your primary critiques, 1-4. .) Nothing on any lake around here. The brain is a mysterious black box after all. Adeney lives in Longmont, Colorado, and contends that most middle-classindividuals can and should spend less money and own fewer physical possessions, and that they can live with increased financial freedom an… If you are using an extract kit you save maybe $40 bucks at best. I don’t know– maybe as an attending I’ll discover joy in patient care again…but I do know, with MMM’s theology, I can always have that card in my back pocket. It means that other peoples’ money no longer dictates what you do with your time. I do want to achieve FI as soon as possible and will be using a combination of WCI and MMM advice to get there, but I also will ALWAYS WORK – Taking care of patients will always bring meaning to my life! Bike more. It would take me months and it wouldn’t work right when I was done, but I can pay for a new tranny in a couple of days in the ER. He and his wife graduated from college and were making a decent amount of money. My hockey playing friends are falling all over the ice at the thought of that.  I believe he's even traveled to other countries because of the popularity garnered from the web site and he claims to be generating a 6-digit income off of what he was able to build online. They build their own cabins, chop their own wood for fuel, hunt their own food, and in general live completely off the grid. To keep this blog ad-free, this post may contain affiliate links and/or paid placement. Perfect. Between two roadless towns. $3K a day. As for your take on MMM vs. WCI’s take, you are both right. I went golfing every day (the university course sold me an unlimited three-month pass for $100 or so.) They would fall further into debt because many already have heaps of debt. So, when I hit my FIRE number, and my side gig consistently generated more income than my surgical salary, I decided to turn in my scrubs. . . From 1994. I don’t replace my own transmissions, for instance. Then I played some video games. Pete did not. Really? That’s a heckuva deal. Re: Reasons Why Mr. Money Mustache Got A Divorce « Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 07:40:03 PM » I have no idea and I don't want to judge another man's life, but I do agree that when you sell a lifestyle based on your own like it's relevant to readers if you get a divorce. MMM lives an extremely frugal lifestyle - certainly more frugal than I am living now and probably ever will live.  Now, if you are a dedicated follower of his blog, I would wager that you are looking forward to his next weekly blog posting. Some of his advice isn’t really practical, but that’s OK. He’s already given me a lot to think about for my next car purchase, for instance.  Or 30s. Mr. Money Mustache. It’s awfully nice right now. MMM doesn’t advocate doing things you hate, or that there’s no point in wasting time doing. I obviously publish what I make here. Not all specialties are set up to accommodate docs that simply decide to cut down to 2 days per week. I don’t clean my own house though. Correction: we save 70-80% of our combined income, not spend. [Editor's Note: I originally ran this post back in June 2015. I don’t see why I need to be. He seems to be the kind of person who can do a plumbing job at his home or his rentals without outsourcing. IMHO, Mr. MMM is putting an inordinate amount of trust in our government, the Fed, Wall Street, the banking system, etc., to keep our economy running in a stable fashion for as long as his extended retirement is going to last. He lives in Longmont, Colorado. I do agree with you that the solution to not liking your job is to find a new one. You’re free to work on whatever you want. Mr money mustache Bitcoin seat be used to buy merchandise anonymously. Got a question, strategy, or something to share regarding taxes? He graduated with a degree in computer engineering in the 1990s and worked … Also available on Audible! But I do my own financial planning and investing. I read both blogs, although his is getting less and less as he only seems to post a few times a month now. My kids are young and I want to enjoy that time, not work like a dog, then retire as soon as they graduate college! I’ll guarantee I’ve had just as much fun skiing, boating, scuba diving, jet skiing, and so on without ever owning the equipment I needed for those activities. The other factor many fail to consider is the risk of injury and loss of income doing things “the hard way.”. Invest your money in simple investments like index funds and investment real estate. Do you think doctors should retire after 7 years if they don't like their jobs? But here's the deal. “The more pleasures a man captures, the more masters he will have to serve”. 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